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I have found supers need to reach level 9 by age 11 to do REALLY Well. I will now be waiting to see how horses level before i super them(aside from comp horses).
I have not been able to find anything to help them level better. After level 4 its all luck i believe.
Lines seem to have nothing to do with it as i had 2 fillys, full sisters, the same age, one was 4-5 levels behind the other before they finished their jumping careers.
Training levels only go up 1 level per year started at age 2, once they get to level 4 at age 5, it all goes to luck.
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I'll agree that lines have nothing to do with it - I've now watched several foals I was excited about flop and do worse than their parents after getting stuck around level 5/6 for their entire prime...
For what it's worth, my naturals seem to level up better than my itemed horses? It's weird, because I'll have some that have bad lines and DNA, but they keep on steadily jumping at their mediocre height and reach high training levels.
Training level does seem to affect jump height, I feel like I've seen the biggest improvements after mine level up, and the ones who get stuck don't improve much either. It seems a vicious cycle.
All I've taken away thus far is to wait before spending a whole lot on iteming horses when I can, and to try to keep them consistently jumping, because it seems like their chances of going up a level decline if they're not jumping at all.
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Selcouth
• 585 career posts
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1456 days ago
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I have found now after experimenting and watching closely with the training levels and horses being at their top potential need to have their training level one below their age. Example my 7 yr. olds need to have a level 6 minimum for me to keep them. They just seem to be a waste of my time if their training level is any lower because they do not perform well so I do't dare breed them.
My horses start to peak at training level 8 or 9 while 10 years old.
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I also do not item any horses until they show me their training level is one below their age. It sure saves on putting earrings on a donkey! =P
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You say you don't breed them - are you finding that foals tend to do similarly in training as their parents?
...I ask because I have yet to have a horse continue to consistently earn levels into their prime.
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Selcouth
• 586 career posts
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1456 days ago
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Huh. Interesting. Thanks for all the replies. Very frustrating that it is random... lol I have some brilliant looking foals that I want to do well... lol :-)
I've never had a horse (not that I've had many at this point) only be one training level under their age after they get past the first 4... I'm not even sure I've had a horse hit level 9 when they are 11... yet they still seem to jump half decent as long as they get up there eventually... idk
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That was my impression, that they still end up doing okay as long as they don't fall TOO far behind (glares at the 12-13 year olds with like...level 5). I mean, once they skip a year, they'll never be a level behind their age again.
For me, I've just kept them regardless of training because as the only breeder I'd like to keep registries up. Duds can still help as long as they don't jump absolutely horribly.
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Selcouth
• 588 career posts
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1455 days ago
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I don’t understand it at all honestly lol. There’s a lot to the game that’s barely explained unless you ask someone who has been playing the entire time :s
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Does anyone think training levels are effected by the horse's win/loss ratio??? Possibly?
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I'm leaning toward no, or at least no exclusively - I'm seeing horses skip levels even at youngish ages, at which point they're performing pretty similarly win/loss ratio wise (they are exclusively jumped against my jump barn until they hit the upper class, and then usually jumped carefully to keep their ranks low while I can). I just looked at my 6 year olds, for example, and only one is at level 5, despite their overall performance being quite similar.
But I'd be really curious if somebody has actually tracked win/loss ratio versus training! I hadn't thought about that much.
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Selcouth
• 591 career posts
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1455 days ago
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So I haven't noticed too much in way of how levels increase. What I have noticed so far -
- Selling/Breeding a horse the year of tends to make them skip a potential level increase. I don't breed young often so I don't have much to back it up, I just notice that if I breed a horse or transfer it to a different barn it tends to not level up. (ie, I bred one mare a few times to get a foal from her with an older horse. Her levels are comparable to the "Very Good" horses, see below).
- However, breeding/selling doesn't seem to have a long term impact. A horse I purchased at age 4 did level up to level 4, but then got stuck on level 4 for ages 5 & 6. He had a secondary example of getting stuck at ages 8 & 9 at 6, but otherwise has been gaining one level per year.
- 2 horses I have who are only "Very Good" lines have consistently struggled both jump wise and level gaining wise. They tended to remain at the same level for 2-3 years, and are on the lower end of jump levels compared to my other horses.
- My purchased horse (excellent lines) did not show a major difference in Breeding Score when compared to my lower level Very Good lined horses. (His peak score was 441, theirs were 440). While level does seem to play into the overall breeding score (the breeding scores dropped when hitting "I can still do this", but bumped back up slightly when the horses gained another training level) it does not seem to play a major impact, nor does birth score seem to give an indication of trainability so far.
I'm looking forward to seeing how my horses perform in the long run. These are all examples and things I have seen in my project TBs so far. I may just have to add in a win/loss ratio slot to track on their foals, because that is an interesting prospect! My project TBs are currently age 15, they will jump until the end of their 16th year. I did breed the aforementioned mare in her prime, so I will also be interested if breeding when their breed score is high results in higher birth score foals, and how their prime scores compare to their parents, as well as training levels for each age and jumps!
Lots and lots of spreadsheet info xD But hopefully if there is a correlation in any of the above it will be revealed in a few generations :D
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Fascinating. Thanks for all the input. I'd certainly be curious what insights you find in the future. :-)
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So... As an update... before my jumpers aged last night, I decided to write down their training levels and win streaks just to see what happened ...
Disappointingly, only two of my noteworthy jumpers aged up...
Myrkrið This 6yo to level 5
and my 14yo to level 9 The Fire Bride
Leaving my 10,12, and 13 year-olds at their previous levels of 6 or 7. (Very unfortunately...)
My younger horses 4-2 also aged up, but I didn't pay much attention to them as that is expected.
The 6yo had s 21 jump win streak
the 14yo had 21 wins over 18losses (I guess I missed the win streak but it was probably 1 or 2.)
My other horses who didn't level up mostly had 1 or 2 win streaks, however...
Förbränna who I was really hoping would level up did not... he had a lose streak... because he is in that unfortunate position of being too young to win against higher jumpers and in too high of a class to jump against horses he can win against. Still... I had high hopes for this guy... but he didn't level up.
Did anyone else have any interesting finds?
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I have only noticed one potential correlation. The horses I breed that tend to jump 90”+ before their prime, tend to continue to level up to 8-10 in training during their prime. I have only had 2 horses like this however, one mare went all the way to level 10 in her prime and jumped 95.25” overall. The other, a stallion, leveled all the way to 8 and jumped a total height of 93.5”. Both horses second generation. Now I have a 3rd generation youngster who is 7 years old and just hit 89” this morning. I will continue to watch that horse to see if it holds true for him as well.
I have not noticed any correlation through genetics, very good or excellent lines, or jump ratios. I don’t breed my mares until they are at least 11 or 12 so can’t speak much on breeding.
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All I've been keeping track of is training level and jump height reached at each age (jump height determined on the morning the horse ages and recorded as max height for year before). Haven't had time to really dig into the data, but disappointingly I see over and over again horses that make consistent and significant improvements in jump height stalled on training.
For what it's worth, I have a small group right now that are all really behind on training (around 5-6 in their prime...). I haven't gone through all of them, but one of the really disappointing ones has two parents who also had delays in training level increases (one still hit 90", which is good for my rares right now). So now I'm going to have to go through the rest of their foals and see if there's a breeding correlation there.
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Selcouth
• 604 career posts
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1453 days ago
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Interesting... Rising Phoenix for the horses that jump 90 before their prime... are those itemed or super horses?
Selcouth... I've noticed that as well. I had horses improve in their jump heights steadily, but they don't seem to be getting higher in training which is a lot of what is confusing me.
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These horses are only itemed. I have only had two supers and neither of them hit level 8 training in their prime so I haven't found a correlation there between jump height and age.
That 7 year old that hit 90.5" in his prime is now 8 and at level 7 in training.
Fire Away
We will see how far he goes in his training.
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Whoo! He looks incredible! Congrats! Out of curiosity when did you start jumping him and how much?
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